SPC-1258-T - SCP Foundation

SPC-1258-T

Forum » Writing Help / Help: Drafts and Critiques » SPC-1258-T

Started by:

kenneth1221
Date: 03 May 2017 00:12
Number of posts: 30

RSS: New posts

Summary:

Anomalous Martial Arts + Shark Punching = ???

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SPC-1258-T

kenneth1221 03 May 2017 00:12

Sixth Tab, SPC-1258-T

This is an idea I've been kicking around a bit, inspired, of course, by SCP-1258. It's a story of how the SPCentre royally f's up, and how the world's fine afterwards anyways. Maybe even better, from the Centre's perspective.

The philosophy behind this piece was essentially an SPC sufficiently different from its inspiring SCP. I was criticized, rightfully, for not going too far into the alternate universe aspects of SPC-1981 and porting too much of it over from SCP-1981. My goal with this piece was thus to worldbuild a bit and avoid the flaws of that work. And, of course, to write something good.

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sirpudding 03 May 2017 00:38

I fear that we may be reaching SPC saturation. This entertained me but really didn't do anything unexpected.

We haven't used amnestics yet in the Centreverse, as far as I know, (and since the Centre is much less worried about secrecy we haven't needed to) so maybe a less handwavy solution can be found here. Or at least something other than the Foundation's signature magic tech.

Similarly "United Nations", "Morse Code" and probably a few that I missed are things from our world where suitable alternatives can be found. Perhaps the League of Nations, or if you want to play with the ongoing aquatic dyslexia Nautical Unity or something (or do a double whammy and make it the Organization of Naval Legates). Similarly Morse Code could be "Tesla Code" or "Wheatstone Code". There's probably a few more; when I write these things (well both of them anyway) I go through and look for stuff that is reasonable to tweak in the Centreverse.

Last edited on 03 May 2017 03:03 by sirpudding Show more

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kenneth1221 03 May 2017 00:58

Oh dear. Is cetaceans of human intelligence founding their own nation really that overdone of a trope? (I get it, though. Animals-get-intelligence-and-fight-the-masters is literally the plot of SCP-1258. Anomaly-acts-friendly-because-of-SHARK is the plotline of every other SPC.)

I used amnestics in SPC-1981 as a throwaway line; my original idea was punching someone hard enough to cause brain damage, but that was honestly just stupid. Amnestics are kind of a necessary weasel for the whole verse, but I'm sure I can write around them in this case.

I'll work on changing some of the references. My original idea was to have the GOC instead of the UN as party to the negotiations, but I don't know what the GOC's equivalent is. Any ideas?
(Maybe the World Wildlife Foundation is a UN project…)

What would make it fresher? Long diplomatic negotiations between the Cetacean Union and the Centre? A secret war fought between Cipangu and the Cetaceans? The only real augmentation to the SPC-verse this piece could add would be a substantial amount of worldbuilding.

Last edited on 03 May 2017 02:39 by kenneth1221 Show more

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sirpudding 03 May 2017 02:59

Oh dear. Is cetaceans of human intelligence founding their own nation really that overdone of a trope? (I get it, though. Animals-get-intelligence-and-fight-the-masters is literally the plot of SCP-1258. Anomaly-acts-friendly-because-of-SHARK is the plotline of every other SPC.)

Well mainly, I expected them to try to use SCP-1258 to train nonhuman shark fighters as soon as say the title, and that's what happens. The politics are less expected and might stand some expansion, yes. Don't forget the Centreverse also has Deep Ones, effectively, and their vast undersea kingdoms (and even if the other powers might negotiate with them, they won't negotiate with the Centre).

My original idea was to have the GOC instead of the UN as party to the negotiations, but I don't know what the GOC's equivalent is.

I don't think we've established one yet. Obviously it's less concerned with SPC-001, that's the Centre's job, but they probably cooperate with the Centre. They are perhaps a global alliance of terrestrial nations in order to protect against significant Deviant threats (including military deterrence with CYAN ABYSS). Maybe instead of OWi or WWII they had a war against CYAN ABYSS (which included the UAS torpedoing HADES SHOAL in '56)? The war ended with the Greenland Concordat and its terrestrial enforcement arm is the Greenland Concordat Organization. Obviously CERULEAN GLOVE broke the terms of the Concordat, and so the GCO had to get involved…

(Maybe the World Wildlife Foundation is a UN project…)

Although this is pretty funny too. Why not both?

Last edited on 03 May 2017 08:37 by sirpudding Show more

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kenneth1221 03 May 2017 03:25

Do you or MrWrong have a repository of all of this lore? At this point, I feel kind of like I'm flailing around a bit in writing anything set in this canon. I know that generally "there is no canon", but it'd be useful to have somewhere to keep track of changes from baseline.

I didn't realize CYAN ABYSS were the Deep Ones; I think I can actually work this into this SPC. Plenty of potential for political jockeying!

Do you have any insights on CYAN ABYSS/Deep One Culture in this verse? Are they Daevite-esque in terms of cannibalism et al?? Anything that could cause a truce between them and punching cetaceans to shatter? Any goals for global dominion? Their opinion on SPC-001? Basically, I could use more to work with if I'm going to use the Deep Ones as a major player in this particular political confrontation, which is necessary.

Greenland Concordat Organization

This sounds like the GOC. Can I assume a level of similarity to the Fivefold mission and GOC established canon?

I think I can probably do a pretty substantial rewrite, changing the theme of this SPC from its current plotline to one where the Centre introduces a wildcard into an already unstable geopolitical equilibrium. Like radicalizing a marginalized group in a Cold War. We're going full on alt-history here and referencing Stross pretty heavily already.

^{Would it really be that implausible to have the Axis backed by CYAN ABYSS? Or would it be just ridiculously bad taste?}

Last edited on 03 May 2017 03:37 by kenneth1221 Show more

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sirpudding 03 May 2017 04:11

Do you or MrWrong have a repository of all of this lore? At this point, I feel kind of like I'm flailing around a bit in writing anything set in this canon. I know that generally "there is no canon", but it'd be useful to have somewhere to keep track of changes from baseline.

Well, no and I think we have resisted it up until now. It may not be necessary, there are only five Centre formats and three of them are less than a month old! It's also possible that these don't all share the same universe, but there could be as many SPCs as many times anybody has accidentally typed SPC instead of SCP. But mostly we are making this up as we go.

I didn't realize CYAN ABYSS were the Deep Ones; I think I can actually work this into this SPC. Plenty of potential for political jockeying!

Well, not literally the Deep Ones. They are Sharkic Cult sharktopus men, not Cthulhu Cult fishmen, but I intended them as Deep One analogs. The hints are there: HADES SHOAL= Devil's Reef. CYAN AYBSS = BLUE HADES.

Do you have any insights on CYAN ABYSS/Deep One Culture in this verse?

They are still Sarkic really, they have Sharkists (Karcists) and Halcosts (which includes their vast undersea structures as Sharkists who have become enormous Hag's Purses), and they want to eat God.

Are they Daevite-esque in terms of cannibalism et al??

They are Sarkic shark-octopuses, so yes cannibalism is probably a big deal for them.

Anything that could cause a truce between them and punching cetaceans to shatter?

The cetaceans punching them to death and stealing their skins and ink sacs to feed BRONZE UPPERCUT for to get the ultimate ninja moves?

Any goals for global dominion?

As far as they are concerned, they have global dominion; their race is the undisputed master of 75% of the planet, they couldn't care less about what the primitive apes are still doing on the flotsam that's left over most of the time. So they are more generally concerned with their own wars and politics than with the surface world. The Centre is an annoyance though.

Their opinion on SPC-001?

SPC-001 is their Yalbadoath. They want to come to our world and eat us to gain our power and to punish us for creating their world through typographical errors.

Basically, I could use more to work with if I'm going to use the Deep Ones as a major player in this particular political confrontation, which is necessary.

I don't know if you know, but I do put commentary on my author page, hopefully as support for anybody who uses my stuff. That said, I made them up, wrote an article that had most of what I know about them and that is about it. I can answer specific questions about them, but I am literally making up the answers as I go, which is a great worldbuilding exercise, but I don't have any special claim other than I am probably uncommonly good at it.

This sounds like the GOC.

Well yeah, I literally just made them up because you were wondering about GOC equivalents. The paragraph about them above was totally extemporary and meant as a suggestion only.

Can I assume a level of similarity to the Fivefold mission and GOC established canon?

Assume nothing. I would think about what you could do with five items, and a peace treaty enforcement organization. Five Articles of Concordance?

Would it really be that implausible to have the Axis backed by CYAN ABYSS? Or would it be just ridiculously bad taste?

The Axis is something from our world, and theirs diverged thousands of years ago. From the mainlist articles we know that the Centre doesn't even use a recognized language!

Long post collapsed. ~Zyn

Last edited on 03 May 2017 08:36 by sirpudding Show more

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sirpudding 04 May 2017 04:18

The new changes are amazingly good, this is some balls-to-the-walls Centreverse geopolitical intrigue.

+ L5/1258 Clearance Required

It looks like we have two competing clearance schemes in use, obviously I like mine better (where this would be "CERULEAN GLOVE-ORACLE Required") and maybe we should figure out which one we are using.

Mobile Fish Team

As an alternative to Marine Fighting Team? I think it sounds a bit too silly, and Marine Fighting Team should probably work better in context here.

Footnote 18 probably should name some CYAN AYBSS Kingdoms as signatories, I would suggest appropriate mutations of the names of the major Sarkic Karcists and/or organizations.

I know what SPC-001 is, and it sounds like a goddamn joke, but I’m a talking bipedal dolphin and you don’t see me laughing.

I love this line. Never change it.

I may go over this again, there's a lot here. Of course Wrong should really see this too.

This might be a good article to slip the Botswains of the Cog of God in too, BTW.

Last edited on 04 May 2017 05:46 by sirpudding Show more

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kenneth1221 04 May 2017 06:25

It looks like we have two competing clearance schemes in use, obviously I like mine better (where this would be "CERULEAN GLOVE-ORACLE Required") and maybe we should figure out which one we are using.

I pulled this from Wrong's SPC-2000, but I do think CERULEAN GLOVE-ORACLE would be more thematic.

As an alternative to Marine Fighting Team? I think it sounds a bit too silly, and Marine Fighting Team should probably work better in context here.

Marine Fighting Team, for sure. Just slipped my mind. I can definitely name some CYAN ABYSS Kingdoms and their locations.

Not sure how to fit in the Botswains. Could you expound on what you think about them? In terms of a force guiding humanity through a chaotic occultic world, I wrote the esoteric branch of the GOC, Unnatural Navigations, or UN for short. At least one group of Botswains would be a major player in that coalition, quite possibly as Grand Admiral, simply because of the contextual and linguistic similarities. But I just don't know whether the Botswains should be depicted as trying to reassemble a cage around SPC-001, or trying to create a mechanical god a la Maksur, or even be somewhat equivalent to proto-Sarkicists in the main Foundationverse— a group functioning on the edges of the world, relying on anomalous means yet not drawing the notice of the major players.

The cosmic horror of the world is pretty much a Sharkic victory, you know?

Last edited on 04 May 2017 06:25 by kenneth1221 Show more

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sirpudding 04 May 2017 06:43

I pulled this from Wrong's SPC-2000, but I do think CERULEAN GLOVE-ORACLE would be more thematic.

Yes, and I have commented on SPC-2000 about that. Although if we decide to go the other way I will edit SPC-682, whatever.

Not sure how to fit in the Botswains. Could you expound on what you think about them?

My thoughts are, unlike the CotBG the BotCoGs are a dominant religion in the Centreverse, essentially equivalent to Catholicism in our world and that they believe that the world is a ship and they must steer it right. The mechanical symbolism of the CotBG is totally replaced with nautical symbolism with them (Cog here means the ship type, and intended as a punny reference to the gear). The connection here might be that some of the CERULEAN GLOVE have converted to Botswainism (or not; this is so gonzo already, so it's just a thought).

Last edited on 04 May 2017 07:06 by sirpudding Show more

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kenneth1221 04 May 2017 06:58

The BotCoGs are a dominant religion in the Centreverse, essentially equivalent to Catholicism in our world and that they believe that the world is a ship and they must steer it right.

Honestly, if they're an orthodoxic faith, they'd definitely be a founding member of the Unnatural Navigations (although I'm not that big a fan of that name). I don't really know how to mention CERULEAN GLOVE converts other than in footnotes, which I suppose could work. While the name's obviously based off of the CotBG, this interpretation sounds like it would draw more from the MCF and Horizon. The real potential of the BotCoG's beyond the scope of this piece, unfortunately.

Side note: You think we could get away with canonically making a time-displaced Sophia Light the messiah for the BotCoGs, who was tied to an anchor but rose in 3 days anyways? And make another time-displaced Sophia Light a Martin Luther figure?

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sirpudding 04 May 2017 07:03

Unnatural Navigations (although I'm not that big a fan of that name)

Navigantibus Umbrae?

Last edited on 04 May 2017 07:07 by sirpudding Show more

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Shaggydredlocks 04 May 2017 06:43

As an alternative to Marine Fighting Team?

I prefer 'Mobile Task Fist' myself, but that might be a little on the ludicrous side.

SPC-001

As an aside, will there be multiple SPC-001 proposals?

CODE NAME: Jonathan Ball - Shark of Papers
CODE NAME: Dr. Gears - The Piscinetype
CODE NAME: Dr. Mann - The Selachian Path
CODE NAME: Scantron - The Center
CODE NAME: Djoric/Dmatix - Thirty-Six Rows of Fangs
CODE NAME: TwistedGears/Kaktus - The Broken Cod
CODE NAME: S. D. Locke - When Wave Breaks

eh, that's all I've got.

Last edited on 04 May 2017 06:57 by Shaggydredlocks Show more

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sirpudding 04 May 2017 06:54

I prefer 'Mobile Task Fist' myself, but that might be a little on the ludicrous side.

I like Marine Fighting Team, and I am prepared to die on this particular shoal.

Dyslexic
Nautical
Fisticuffs related
Plausible and almost sensible sounding

These are, IMO, the ideal elements of a Centreverse version of a Foundationverse thing.

As an aside, will there be multiple SPC-001 proposals?

No, this is a key thesis that MrWrong introduced from the start. The Centre knows exactly why their universe is fucked up.

Now obviously there are different versions of the SPC, and I think the way that MrWrong and I are planning on presenting SPC-001 will allow for enough canonical doubt to cover all of them.

eh, that's all I've got.

You've missed the one that matters.

However this is getting off topic from kenneth's draft.

Last edited on 04 May 2017 06:58 by sirpudding Show more

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sirpudding 04 May 2017 07:18

Adytum's Lakes

This joke is gold.

ETA:

O-11 (Commander of External and Anti-Nautical Operations (CEANO))

I think maybe the CICAPOCO members are named, since the Centre is much more public than the Foundation. I also wonder of the Ocean Pun maybe more subtle? What if it's a knighly order?
So something like

—Sir Adama Bright, OCN, CICAPOCO (Nelson Chair)

Dunno.

Last edited on 04 May 2017 20:01 by sirpudding Show more

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kenneth1221 04 May 2017 22:31

I think maybe the CICAPOCO members are named, since the Centre is much more public than the Foundation. I also wonder of the Ocean Pun maybe more subtle? What if it's a knighly order?

Feel like a knightly order would raise more questions that it's worth and be kind of jarring in a "are these knights really going around punching sharks?" kind of way.

A CICAPOCO member would probably be named, but my intent was for O-11 and INSURRECTION CHROMA (formerly CHITIN INSIGHT) to be the equivalent of the Chaos Insurgency. (A Chaos Insurgency brought back under the fold and made of whales/dolphins, but never mind that.) Thus, secrecy for involved personnel, especially on a potentially hackable memo.

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sirpudding 05 May 2017 00:38

Feel like a knightly order would raise more questions that it's worth and be kind of jarring in a "are these knights really going around punching sharks?" kind of way.

Is it any weirder than knights starring in movies, or making documentaries, or writing beloved fantasy novels, or being ministers of parliament or commanding a submarine or whatever?

A CICAPOCO member would probably be named, but my intent was for O-11 and INSURRECTION CHROMA (formerly CHITIN INSIGHT) to be the equivalent of the Chaos Insurgency. (A Chaos Insurgency brought back under the fold and made of whales/dolphins, but never mind that.) Thus, secrecy for involved personnel, especially on a potentially hackable memo.

Ah, well you might definitely want to check with Wrong, as I know he has plans for something involving the Centreverse CI as agents of the Foundation.

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kenneth1221 05 May 2017 15:18

Is it any weirder than knights starring in movies, or making documentaries, or writing beloved fantasy novels, or being ministers of parliament or commanding a submarine or whatever?

Not inherently. To be honest, I'm not sure why I have this aversion to making them knights.

Okay. You know what's different between all those things you mentioned and an SPC of knights? The SPC is martial. I don't have a problem with knights doing a bunch of regular stuff, but knights doing what knights are actually supposed to be doing, in the modern day? That just feels weird.

Yet at the same time, it feels weirdly fitting for the SPC-verse. Descendants of militant Botswains, maybe, a la the Templars? I need to think on this some more to see whether it belongs.

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sirpudding 05 May 2017 17:25

but knights doing what knights are actually supposed to be doing, in the modern day?

For the record, it isn't unheard of in our world either (and especially not for KCB which are generally military awards). For the record, I wasn't suggesting that the leadership of the SPC be knights, I was suggesting that a knight might hold a leadership position in an international organization.

Last edited on 06 May 2017 02:47 by sirpudding Show more

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MrWrong 05 May 2017 05:51

Alright… one issue I have here is that you reveal the LCU way too soon. I do hold the opinion that CICAPOCO should be more minimalist than the Special Containment Procedures. I think you can shorten all that to the project being terminated due to Reason. Leave more elaboration for Deployment, for I think the current version might spoil a large chunk of this article's own story.

Reading this again, I find it pointless to say it's terminated one minute and then immediately say it's active. To a reader, that comes off as redundant. I think be direct and just say that it is active.

Last edited on 05 May 2017 06:06 by MrWrong Show more

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kenneth1221 05 May 2017 15:08

Good points. I can resolve your first problem pretty easily by moving most of that information towards the end, which currently feels lacklustre. That's a pretty big storytelling flaw.

I want to give the impression that the Centre's treating the project as terminated, when it's actually active on a black-ops level. I've restructured the piece to accommodate that. What do you think?

one issue I have here

I need to ask, are there several other issues that you haven't articulated, is it just that the piece as a whole gives you a low-level feeling of discomfort or dissatisfaction, or are you actually pretty ok with it and I'm just reading too much into things? Not trying to be confrontational, genuinely curious because your current complaints critiques are fairly mechanics-oriented.

Last edited on 05 May 2017 15:19 by kenneth1221 Show more

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MrWrong 05 May 2017 15:24

The other issue lies in the length. I mean, I acknowledge that you are aiming for world-building and you have brought in a lot of info. Considering that the base anomaly is an extrapolation of SCP-1258's effect, it might not invite a strong degree of willingness to read on.

Ergo, perhaps you can shorten the Components and Enhancement portions, since I think a reader familiar with SCP-1258 would have some idea of what's going on.

Also, for the very last part, perhaps you would want a better colour scheme. Red on grey seems rather difficult to look at.

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kenneth1221 05 May 2017 16:34

I've also attempted to address these concerns. Thanks for the help!

Before I finalize or make plans for another major revision, would you say there are any specific story points that you don't like?

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MrWrong 05 May 2017 16:43

Nothing in particular. When one actually reads the story (Deployment onwards), it can be engaging. The trick will be to have the readers still onboard by then.

That being said, I am of the opinion that paragraph after paragraph of prose might wear out a reader (especially when there is a fair amount of content in each). Perhaps a spread of various presentation styles can help, like interviews, reports, logs etc. It can let a reader to feel the situation on the ground, and minimise going through rounds of paragraphs.

Last edited on 05 May 2017 16:50 by MrWrong Show more

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kenneth1221 06 May 2017 08:55

Alright, I tried editing the prose into more demonstrative forms. I think it's slightly better than before, but some of the other presentation styles are a little on the long side in my opinion.

I also tried a table just listing the events, but that felt too dry. The approach I have now still seems heavy on the prose, but I can't find a way to both use a table and include the stuff I just wrote seamlessly, if it's worth incorporating.

Could I get your opinion when you have a moment?

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MrWrong 06 May 2017 09:30

Kyoto street

But Kyoto is inland…

But in general, the presentation is much better now. I am of the opinion that it is sufficient.

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Scorpion451 06 May 2017 14:19

Well, it's inland for the time being. We get much more than a few degrees of global warming, and it starts getting beachfront property as the Yodo-Gawa river valley becomes Yoda-Gawa Bay, and Osaka becomes the Venice of Japan.

(Absurd worst case scenario is that nearby Lake Biwa connects with the ocean and becomes an inland sea.)

Hasn't there been some mention of the sea levels being higher in the SPCverse or the Center trying to promote sea level rise?

Last edited on 06 May 2017 14:21 by Scorpion451 Show more

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MrWrong 06 May 2017 14:30

I think an explicitly coastal city will be more suitable. There's only so much one can handwave until someone finds it excessive.

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sirpudding 06 May 2017 14:50

I like it, for anybody who notices its a great WTF moment, and most people won't notice.

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sirpudding 06 May 2017 02:43

termed CERULEAN GLOVE Deviant-Class Selachian Entities,

Technically they aren't selechian.

Last edited on 06 May 2017 02:44 by sirpudding Show more

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Re: SPC-1258-T

kenneth1221 06 May 2017 04:09

Oops. Should be Cetacean.

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kenneth1221, 06 May 2017 04:09

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