What if a person was wrongly convicted of a crime and put on death row. Let's say they took the Foundation's offer and became a D-class. If before they were to reach the monthly termination, new evidence came to light and they got a pardon. Would they still be terminated or would they be set free with amnesiacs?
i would think that as soon as the foundation gets a d class, he is officially dead, because are his family members not going to wonder where he went or the actual jail authoroties of the prison he was kept in think where he went
I bet they could spin it into the D-class believing the Foundation itself was responsible for their pardon, maybe give them an offer of employment. If the person didn't actually do their violent crime, maybe they'd be suitable for recruitment.
I was just thinking of a person who worked for the NYPD and was wrongly convicted of a crime. He was given a figurative get out of jail free card and he asked the Foundation for a job as an agent.
"Hey man, I know I'm in death row and everything, but I was totally wrongfully convicted! Can I pretty please get out and maybe get a job with you guys? I promise I'll be good! I mean, I was wrongfully convicted and used to be a cop!"
"Hey, stop laughing! Is the answer yes?"
About…99% of prisoners will always say that they are wrongfully convicted. Why would yours be any different?
No, that's not quite what I mean. What I meant was the evidence was found that proved his innocence. Not the fact that he thought he was innocent.
Result would be the same. You don't ask the Foundation for a job.
And why would the Foundation keep checking the cases of the D-class real time?
"Hey, hey, guys! I was kept checking every minute about D-838282821327's case and now he might be innocent"
"Woah! Take him out of 017's chamber, quick! The poor fella'!"
The relation to crime is an important thing at D-class, since many SCPs behave different with rapist and different with "poor fellas".
I've often heard good alternative theories for the d-class origins, since there aren't enough death row inmates in America…but it also doesn't seem weird that they would take note if one of the D's was exonerated, and mind-wipe/release them afterwards.
I sing of arms and the man
Storm-tossed by Hera's jealousy
Heh, you know what would be really fucked up? An undercover cop infiltrating the prison system and he accidentally gets picked up by the Foundation….
Can I write that? Please? Pretty please with a cherry on top?
Yes, I hereby grant you permission as the Keter Lord
ALL HAIL THE KETER LORD
No, I will not hail you.
Curses, foiled again
Curses? Curses? Did you just say curses?
I'd imagine that the people the Foundation make the offer to are the worst of the worst. Someone that is undoubtedly guilty and/or have had a long history of crime beforehand. I also think that the Foundation goes for death row inmates from a wide variety of nations. If they relied on one country alone, they'd be out of D- Class in a week.
I personally like the idea that the D-Class that survive get their mind's wiped at the end of each month, and are reintroduced to the program, possibly at a different location. To me, having some guy go through horrifying experiences over and over again is worse than just being put down at the end of the month.
I also think that the Foundation goes for death row inmates from a wide variety of nations.
…which raises the question of just how fair it is that those people are on death row in the first place.
There aren't that many countries left that haven't outlawed capital punishment, and a disconcerting number of those still use it for offenses that shouldn't be punished at all (blasphemy, anti-government protesting) or that shouldn't be capital (theft, fraud). Death row isn't always just "the worst of the worst".
This, I think, is where your headcanon gets free rein: is your idea of the Foundation a dark enough one that it regularly recruits political prisoners as D-class, or does it have enough scruples to avoid that? Are there enough prisoners that it can afford to have those scruples? How do you account for any discrepancies?
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The Foundation does have an Ethics Committee, but perhaps they turn a blind eye when "recruiting" D-class. In that case, they take any prisoners with a death penalty over their heads.
They only take those with lots of crime on their hands; however, if that number does not meet the minmum number needed, they will take political prisoners.
I personally feel that would be heavily based upon what actually does happen to D- Class at the end of the month. If surviving D- Class are terminated then I can see the Foundation recruiting political prisoners from other countries. There would simply be too high of a demand for D-Class for one country to fulfill. If surviving D-Class are left alive at the end of the month and reassigned then the Foundation wouldn't have as high of a demand for them.
Then there is the entirely different issue of exactly how many D-Class meet their fate each month. It's either the date of a test is censored, the casualties are censored, or both. That is entirely up to speculation, and it should probably stay that way.
There really aren't many countries with the death penalty these days. In fact, one of the requirements for a country to get into the European Union is to get rid of it. You also have to take into account that a lot of executions have to be witnessed too. You can't really get someone out of that easily. Political prisoners are rather high profile too…
I always had the idea that maybe they were sourcing people from other places. Thousands of people go missing each year and are never found. I wouldn't exactly be surprised if the Foundation were to have something to do with that sort of thing. Perhaps they tempted people with a solution to their problems if they worked for them - resolving debt, people escaping their abusive spouses, giving them shelter. Likely there would be some desperate enough to take the offer, right?
That does make sense, and would explain why some of the profiles for D-Class don't exactly sound like they'd be the type of person pulled out of death row. Hell, normal children have even been used as test subjects in a few cases. I'm not sure if they actually count as D-Class but anyone who is locked in a room with SCP-682 might as well be.
The main question about this theory does puzzle me though. Would the Foundation actually be cruel enough to recruit innocent and even desperate people to serve as D- Class?
I'm operating on the premise that the Foundation's criteria is something along the lines of 'convicted of a serious crime'. In countries without the death penalty that might be people with life sentences/maximum sentences possible under that country's law.
I'm currently throwing some ideas around for a Tale that would try and explore where D-class subjects come from - I don't really like the idea that the Foundation is using the 'innocents' they profess to protect; the Chaos Insurgency* already uses the population of the countries they operate in and it's one of the things that differentiates from from the main branch of the Foundation.
Of course, if the world the Foundation is operating in is supposed to be externally identical to our world, then if they are using dangerous criminals and Death Row inmates, they can't be the ones we see executed. Even if they fake the executions and spirit them away to SCP facilities, there simply aren't enough people being executed worldwide to provide 'cannon fodder' for any organisation, let alone the mass terminations of 'black white black white black white black white black white gray'.
Ergo, far more people than is reported are being sentenced; since the courts keep immaculate records, it means either democracies actually have secret courts that sentence hundreds of people every month, or all trace of the trials is being expunged from the system (which has its own problems - the press reports on these trials and would notice if dozens of times more people were sentenced to death than actually made it to the chair). You can imagine governments playing along as it makes crime look lower than it actually is and makes the worst offenders disappear.
- In my headcanon the Chaos Insurgency sees itself as the Foundation rather than a separate entity - somewhat like the Great Schism.
I imagine in my canon that they use the clone tree in a limited capacity, but mostly I see death row recruits or randomly kidnap people. And I don't see termination as necessarily death. There just isn't enough people to fill in the losses as a result.
Seconding this. In my headcanon, the foundation is using some form of cloning or replication technology\object to either greatly increase the number of D-Class death row recruitment "yields" (take one convict, replicate him fifty times, sends a single copy to every site and you get a lot more D-Class per person "removed" from the non-clandestine world) or generate copies of witnesses prior to amnesiac administration to be used as D-Class (how do you get the Ethics Committee to approve use of children as test subjects? Simply "create" children for that very purpose so no "real" children are harmed. Still morally gray, but less than the alternative)
I now have questions about how other organisations test subjects… Oh my god, I so have a tale. You will be AMAZED. It's so subtle and pleasing and I'm not telling you what it is yet.
I imagine MC&D would use robots or junkies. One of the two. The Serpent's Hand would…Hot damn, I don't even know, they'd just murder stuff to test it and be like, "Cool! It works!"
And it seems fairly obvious that Wondertainment does not have a quality control department to do their testing.
Maybe they do.
A better question would be, what do they test their products on?
My concept was MC&D getting their test subjects from death row inmates in Africa and China, who are less criminals than overzealous preachers and political dissidents.
I think I'll do it about a missionary who was imprisoned in a fictional generic African dictatorship and sold to MC&D, in the format of a confiscated letter to his wife.
The Serpent's Hand would…Hot damn, I don't even know, they'd just murder stuff to test it and be like, "Cool! It works!"
No they bloody well wouldn't. The SH are largely depicted as humane, they aren't psychopaths.
Not as in randomly murder people. I imagine they'd get some kind of SCP and not test it because that would be inhumane. They'd take out into a field operation, be opposed by some other GoI or the Foundation, and THEN it would be tested.
I'm thinking that the Chaos Insurgency basically takes over entire African villages and turns them into "camps" where they can draw an endless number of test subjects from. Not really all that much different from local warlords using them as slave labor.
This might come out of left-field, but what if the Foundation had a safe-class SCP that could be used to determine the D-class subject's guilt, before entering the program? I have an idea in mind but just wanted to get some opinions first before going too far down that path.
Ideally the screening would determine violent offenders, actual guilt and weed out political prisoners or actual innocents before being exposed to the Foundation's secrets.
If anyone has thoughts on this I'd love to hear them - or if there is an SCP existing that can do this please let me know.
I can't say for certain if there is an SCP that can determine one's guilt. I do know that many karma based SCPs exist. There probably is some kind of "lie detector" SCP that can determine truth from lies but I'm not too sure.
It's an interesting idea, I could imagine the Ethics Committee making use of such an SCP in some cases. However, I cannot see the Foundation screening every potential D-Class beforehand. The Foundation need D-Class, weening out as many innocent people as possible is not their agenda, studying the effects of SCPs is. If the Foundation need test subjects, they will get them. I'd assume they wouldn't just grab random people, but it's possible in an emergency.
I doubt they'd straight out expose such an SCP to so many people.
Also I doubt they give much of a fuck, Ethics Commitee aside.
Balance the several thousand D-class that probably get killed every year vs all of humanity and whether they're guilty takes a back seat to neccessity.
That said, there is no canon and it can always be made at least a tale and run the gauntlet.
The Foundation needs sacrificial lambs, and if keeping *insert keter object here* in check means that potential (or even known) innocents have to die, so be it.
The only way that I can see the Foundation putting much effort into determining guilt/innocence is for D-class slated for dealing with objects that react differently. Thingy XXX is passive if it gets to kill a rapist every day, but if exposed to an innocent man heads explode in a ten mile radius. That sort of thing.