Could it be possible to make something orbit around the black hole in the center?
Date: 07 Oct 2008 23:45
Number of posts: 34
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I think that to effectively do that, you would have to make sure that whatever's supporting it didn't get in the way. I'm fairly confident that the fine tuning could be relatively easy with the Foundation's computer resources, but you would most likely have to get some more accurate measurements of it.
I recommend testing on the durability of the outer sphere be halted, as I believe it to be the only thing stopping the singularity inside from becoming a full-scale black hole. I'm not very confident in the Foundation's ability to contain a black hole. I don't think there'd be coming back from a scenario like that. It's fucking scary.
Welcome to the world of scary fiction, son.
Actually, it is well within current technology to restrain a micro-black hole and send it into space before it becomes a threat. Launch a few electrons at it to give it a negative charge, wrap the thing up in magnets to restrain it without giving it access to material, and put it on the next flight out of Earth's gravity well.
This is one of the least threatening SCPs that have the potential to become Keter.
Sorry, I thought hawking radiation was a given. Lemme expand a bit more.
If Hawking Radiation is real, then the black hole will stop being an issue soon after containment is lost (as presumably containment is what is protecting everyone), because the black hole will evaporate quickly and painlessly.
If Hawking Radiation isn't real, then the scenario I just described will work perfectly (and the black hole is much more threatening if this scenario isn't pursued).
Either way, this SCP isn't much of an issue unless you're stupid enough to let it grow in containment by sticking your hand in there and letting it eat you. Or cruel enough to do this to someone else….
The black hole evaporation will not be quick and painless, resulting in radiation that has energy equal to the mass of the black hole. Unless we're assuming absurdly small initial masses (an assumption the article does not make) a quick mass to energy calculation shows that the result of the evaporation will probably end badly.
Using the Schwarzschild radius to approximate the mass of the black hole a .001 mm radius yields ~10^20kg mass. This is assuming that the current containment system (or other effects, such as rotation) don't result in significant deviations from Schwarzchild's result. Another way to estimate the features of the black hole such as mass is by using the motion of the objects introduced into the field of black hole to empirically determine the metric of the space within. Unfortunately, these results may be entirely overwhelmed by the effects of the containment system itself.
A figure that is troubling is 10^29 kg, which the article itself suggests is the mass of the black hole.
For such a large black hole, Hawking radiation (if it exists) would not be an issue. The issue would be dealing with a black hole of considerable mass. The Earth itself is 10^24 kg. Do we really want to find out what happens when an object on the order of 10^29 kg or even 10^20 kg is spontaneously generated on the Earth's surface?
We might be able to chuck the thing into space regardless due to the containment system itself. …But we wouldn't need to move the black hole using electric fields.
I think a bigger potential problem with chucking it into space would be…what if it loses its momentum due to a collission, or brushing too close to a planetoid, and falls into the gravity well of another planet or even the sun? We'd stand a good chance of suddenly losing a rather sizable amount of mass from the solar system, which could wreak havoc on the orbital dynamics..assuming it doesn't fall into the sun and swallow a sizable portion of *its* mass, leading to a potential acellerated nova or supernova event.
And we *really* don't want a black hole anywhere near our solar system if we can help it in the first place. It's contained here, on earth, where we can keep an eye on it and make sure the enclosure doesn't break. Doing anything else with it besides throwing it strips of bacon and lab assistants we don't like would be…ill-advised, no?
Let's say you take this, and then take an SCP that is proven to lead to another dimension/world (such as 093, because that place is just fucked anyways), and then you take, say, 682, and then give some Class-D a procedure by which the containment of the black hole is breached — given such a procedure could be devised — and you just shut the door behind them?
Such a plan is obviously ridiculous.
Or just feed the whole thing to 682. What could go wrong?
I don't think it would be easy to get -682 through the mirror. It would put up a big fight, possibly dislodging SCP-093 in the process and losing a valuable SCP if it goes THROUGH the looking glass.
As for eating it, SCP-682 isn't stupid. Or worse, it would adapt and start throwing singularities around to destroy containment. THAT would be fun.
Dude you just answered a year old post about killing 682. You get so many demerits. So many.
Plus; "it would adapt and start throwing singularities around"
????? Really? It would be able to create black holes?
Although, pushing 123 into another dimension might be a good idea. Of course, who knows how it would react to such a physics question…
Well, if black holes are "where God divided by zero", and a wormhole is essentially two connected black holes made safe with a lot of unobtanium, then you're putting a black hole into a pair of other black holes, thus dividing by zero three times, or ((1/0)/0)/0, and… what's the end-of-the-world scenario where reality takes a lunch break? XK++?
And yeah, year-length necropost is a -12 to Charisma.
Replying to a kill 682 post at all is a sign that you're either new or should know better.
One note from a physicist:
A mass of 1029 kg would imply a Schwartzschild radius of about 180 meters - way bigger than the ~0.5 mm specified in the article (the Schwartzschild radius is the distance from the centre of mass at which the escape velocity of the object equals the speed of light, so it's pretty much the radius of the area that would appear "black"). For it to have a Schwartzschild radius of just half a millimeter, its mass aught to be about 1023 kg.
Of course, that doesn't mean that the black hole can't have a mass of 1029 kg and still be just one millimeter in diameter, as its fairly clearly established that SCP-123 greatly mitigates its gravitational effects. However, I find it hard to believe the scientists ostensibly composing the SCP article would fail to mention that the black hole is so significantly smaller than, by all rules of physics, it actually should be. I'm adding that to the article; I hope that doesn't extend beyond what is allowed without original author permit (I just joined the site, so I don't know the customs around here yet).
Also, I have a suggestion for a theory on how SCP-123 might be achieving (part of) its effect. Namely, that the outer sphere is actually not so much dampening gravity and containing the black hole, as simply being the boundary of a massively compressed fragment of space - that area within the outer sphere? It may appear to be just 65 cm in diameter, but its actually many thousands of kilometers in size. Since gravity falls of with r2, that would explain why the black hole appears so much weaker outside - you may think you are only 65 cm away from the black hole, but actually, it is very, very distant.
Wouldn't explain the blocking of gases though, nor why the gravity further falls off outside the outer sphere, so maybe not that good an idea after all. Still, I thought I'd get it out there.
I really like this one.
I thought you could not see a black hole as a speck of blackness, All you could see visually was the corona around it, but I am not a physicist.
way in excess
this seems disruptive in tone, perhaps "far in excess".
I also noticed that the article notes the size of the black sphere as both approximately 1mm and approximately .5 mm.
I'm not sure if this intentional or not, or which size was meant so I'm just going to point it out.
If what you are explaining SCP-123 to be is the shape on the table in the photograph then you are mistaken. That shape on the table is a Dodecahedron which has 20 triangular sides not 60.
The shape in the picture is not a dodecahedron. Dodecahedrons have 12 sides (Greek "dodeca" = 12), each of which is a regular pentagon.
The one you are thinking of is the icosahedron, which has 20 sides, each of which is an equilateral triangle, but the photo doesn't depict an icosahedron either: icosahedrons have five triangles meeting at every vertex, and there are two vertices at the front of the image which very clearly have six.
Having five or six equilateral triangles meeting at every vertex is, in fact, a characteristic of a geodesic sphere, which — what do you know! — is what the image claimed to be in the first place.
Also if you just look at the image and start counting triangles, you will see very quickly that there are more than 20 of them on the front of the object alone.
On a closer look, I'm inclined to say you're both right. It looks very much like it is a dodecahedron, but one in which each pentagon has been divided into 5 triangles. There are therefore 72 triangles, if I'm right.
So, a pentakis dodecahedron, then. (Also that would be 12 x 5 = 60 faces.)
Tone is driving me nuts from a technical standpoint. Values are sometimes given as numbers, sometimes written out entirely. "Way in excess" is a very unscientific way to quantify scale. so on and so forth. Downvoted for now.
The moment I saw the diameter I went to find the supposed mass of this black hole; if I'd just been patient enough and read the whole thing I'd have seen thought had already been put into the Schwartzschild radius and such. Either way, I like this black hole far more than the other one (can't remember the number—something in the 1-100 range) we have.