As we moved into late 2008, close to 2009, the wiki was still experiencing a lot of sweeping changes. The number of SCP articles seemed to be growing at an ever-increasing rate, and we now had tales being added to the Library section. We had moved from having 4 Admins and 5 mods to having 5 admins and 7 moderators. The members pages had grown to approximately 16 pages. It was still small enough that one person could know everybody else, while also large enough to cultivate an interesting and varied body of work.
Chat also began at this time. It was founded by Kondraki, who created it as IC chat. It wasn't very active, in the words of Pair of Ducks:
I became active in the community because of the chat. It was actually Kondraki that originally made #site19, actually. But chat was fairly ignored then; only him, myself, snorlison, and Fritz (yes, Fritz!) were ever on. Chat was also supposed to be in-character back then!
Eventually #site19 become completely forgotten … but I came back, registered it, and started really trying to get people in there. For a while, it was -still- mostly myself, Kondraki, and Snorlison on … I remember when Gears came into the room one day, it was like we'd met a celebrity xD … but chat got big pretty quick; soon we had Iceberg, Rights, and others popping in regularly. - Pair of Ducks/Paradox
Writers such as yellowdrakex(Rights), name1, BlastYoBoots, and Eberstrom2 made their debut on the WikiDot wiki. These new writers would begin to fill the 001-999 SCP block with hundreds of entries, some good, some bad, but all new and arguably original pieces.
There was also the use of WikiDot tools, like the threat module, mass orient canon, and navigation bar. Created by Ekzhentric Lohner, these tools allowed for an easier way to browse the SCP wiki. The threat modules were designed to supplement the object classes, providing a small illustration that would better provide how the SCP affected you (Cognitohazard, Memory-Affecting, Toxic, Memetic, etc.).
The mass orient canon was a tool that allowed you to go on archive binges, with a simple interface. It's basically a module that listed every page on the wiki, with some preference settings. The navigation bar was simpler, a way to move from one page to another without having to navigate back to the main page. Lohner created these tools without permission, and was thus subjected to angered admins, who didn't like the tools and thought Lohner was just messing with stuff. However, she kept a cool head throughout the process, and eventually was looked on as someone who had the potential to be staff (and would eventually become staff).
A few of these users would also become the next generation of mods and admins. By Feberuary of 2009, Iceberg7, Fat Ghost, Bright, and Pair of Ducks had become moderators, and DrKondraki had become an administrator. With the new set of authority figures, Kain and Gears began to become less central to site authority. The balance of power would swing away from them and into the hands of DrKondraki, who would become the dominant administrator of the Wacky Hi-Jinx era.
Two major different writing styles would begin to emerge with the new generation of producers. There were those like HK-016, who would attempt to ground their articles in heavy, real world science that would act as the hook. Others like Rights and DrKondraki wrote entries that were very character-driven, trying to explore the Foundation from the perspective of one researcher. There were SCP objects stored in offices, handled only by specific researchers. By February of 2009, the second style had become the dominant style of the wiki.
With this shift in writing came a shift in tone. Tone of the site was rapidly shifting from stark horror and seriousness to a goofy, sillier and much less serious style. The "Wacky Hi-Jinx" era, as it is now known, would be a time of loosened regulation. What we now call "lolfoundation" came to be, wherein the writers would try to be funny and cute, instead of horrific or scary. The "Keter Duty" addenda came to be during this time, where users would add bits to their articles saying that misuse of the object would result in being assigned "Keter Duty." We also had many articles using now-unpopular writing tactics such as using [DATA EXPUNGED] repeatedly, cross-references, and things that were knockoffs of older articles.
In January, an attempt at a large-scale for a big SCP review was attempted at this time, which never really got off the ground. There were simply too many SCP articles being posted too quickly for any sort of review to be effective. Staff at the time were unwilling or unable to lock down the wiki for a review, and as such the idea passed without any major action being taken. Entries would continue coming in at the same pace.
Despite that, we also came into what could be called a "Golden Age" of the wiki, as some have called it. There were many people producing lame content, but also a lot of great content. The site as a whole was developing an identity for itself, and developing a more complex canon. One of the major factors here were the stories of "The Fishmonger." His first major story, Wanderlust, was seen as an epic story.3
Unfortunately, with the good came a lot of bad. There were numerous terrible entries created in late 2008 to early 2009. Although you had to make a wiki account to participate, we still had numerous items that were either Mary-Sue power fantasies or something really dumb/not suited for an SCP. Examples can be found on the decommissioned SCP page. This was in the wild yonder days before we went and purged the site with the Mass Edit4, so there wasn't a large process people could turn to by which we could delete a large number of these entries at once. Site administration noticed this, and DrClef in particular decided to take action. A user named Dantenson5 wrote SCP-239, the witch girl. Back in November of 2008 DrClef had made this post on the discussion page:
Dr. A. Clef's Report: My analysis of the situation has led me to the conclusion that SCP-239 is an unacceptable containment and security risk. Although several proposals have been made re: using her for containing other SCPs, the example of SCP-953 and others must serve as a stark reminder of the risks of underestimating the Foundation's ability to control SCPs with reality-altering powers.
I would therefore like to make the following proposal: a piercing implement will be constructed of SCP-148, capable of penetrating SCP-239's otherwise impenetrable skin. This tool will be used to kill SCP-239 while she is asleep and her powers are neutralized. Because of the danger of SCP-239 awakening and resisting termination, it is my recommendation that the selected operative carry SCP-668 as well, in order to minimize complications.
One of the dangers of this procedure is the possibility that SCP-239 will awaken and perceive the operative as a friend or "good person," thus changing reality to match. It is for this reason that I would like to volunteer to carry out the procedure personally. A review of my personnel file should indicate that my [DATA EXPUNGED] should allow me to carry out the operation even after a reality shift of this nature.
Following this post, Clef was contacted by DrKondraki, who said that if Clef was going to attempt to destroy 239 ,then Kondraki would be obligated to go against him. This soon evolved into the story "Termination Order", also known as the "War of the Doctors" which was brought to the wiki on December 4th, 2008. In the course of the story, many of the unpopular articles were decommissioned, which resulted in the story being massively popular. More decomm's would follow in its wake.
The system for decommissioning articles is similar to our current practice of deletion. When staff members noticed an article approaching an exceptionally low rating, and nobody wished to/was able to save it, they would call for a decomm. If enough support was gathered, a decommissioning story would be written and the article in question would be deleted. A copy would then be preserved on the decommissioned SCP section. Unfortunately, the original discussion pages for these articles was also deleted. However, one article I have found still has a portion of the process remaining. SCP-213 was called to be decomm'd before NekoChris rewrote it, and as such still has a discussion on whether or not it could be removed.
Decommissioning stories usually involved various senior staff author avatars using increasingly silly means to destroy bad SCP's. It went from articles in which the destroyers used computer viruses to destroy them, to large explosions, to giant metal fists slamming into them. They were also the first time we really saw senior staff author avatars being used in real stories. We got the Clef/Kondraki rivalry from this time, as well as the Dr. Bright, Professor Crow, The Fishmonger6, Dr. Rights, Agent Streliknov, Dr. Light, Dr. Mann, Iceberg, Break, and Dr. Glass characters. It was a time of character pieces, fun stories in which interesting characters did cool things in unique places.
There were other decommissioning stories that came after Termination Order, each one trying to be more over the top then the previous one. We had a giant steel fist annihilating Ben the Cyborg, the noble warrior Dyne putting himself on the chopping block, and the ChronoKomodo being blasted to smithereens. The nature of these stories kept getting more and more extreme, culminating in the creation of what is widely regarded as the most OTT decommissioning, Duke till Dawn.
Duke till Dawn served as a sort of wake-up call for the site administration. The plot of Dr. Kondraki riding SCP-682, causing enormous damage to a Foundation facility and killing tons of people showed how far off the spectrum they had gone. Instead of destroying Mary-Sues, they were making more of them. DrClef made this post in the SCP History thread:
At this point, we get a little stupid. We start decommissioning SCPs left and right. People are competing for the funniest and most imaginative decoms. And it all comes to a head with Duke till Dawn, the most over the top decom report of all time. And that's when it hits us: we've become the monster.
In our efforts to get rid of mary sue SCPs, we only succeeded in created mary sue researchers.
My history on the site since then has been devoted to trying to fix everything I fucked up. I don't regret what happened: the energy and excitement led to some of the best writing we've ever had, but while we were roaring down the highway at 90 mph with the wind in our hair, we didn't realize we were heading straight towards a cliff. We managed to hit the brakes with two wheels hanging off the edge, climb gingerly out of the car, wrestle it back onto solid ground, and now we're doing 65 on a road running parallel to the cliff. - DrClef
As the wiki rolled into March, some restraint was attempted in wiki business. Characters were toned down somewhat (although not all characters were). Attempts were made to return to a more serious tone. Not everyone supported these changes, most notably the popular site admin, DrKondraki. He preferred to see the Foundation in its old style, and didn't appreciate a darker tone. Kondraki began to act out, editing peoples pages and trolling many site users. Many people complained about this behavior, but he was always let off the hook.
The beginning of his downfall was an incident in late March/Early February during which he deleted every article on the lowest rated pages list without consulting any other members of staff. Although he was chastised for the incident, he didn't receive direct punishment. This would be the beginning of many such power abuses, where he would get angry and do something rash, then calm down again.
Another incident in March was the first real influx of new users, coming in from TvTropes. The SCP Foundation page had been created over there, drawing in the first real newbie surge the site had seen. It was really only about a couple dozen people, but this was a large increase considering how the wiki had operated in the past. This brought about a change of how applications were done. Instead of being from a separate wiki, or by just being a WikiDot member, you'd have to answer a quiz of six site canon questions and provide information similar to the current app.
A lot of people would complain about the writers immigrating from TvTropes, but it did boost site membership, and produced some great writers. It also created a large enough population to start some of the Foundation side projects, such as the RP's. Foundation interest in RP has existed since at least the beginning of the wiki. Going to older threads, it is possible to see Bihjan, Kain, and Unconfirmed Reptile making posts about organizing a Foundation based RP. However, it wasn't ever organized, and if it was organized it wasn't perpetuated. This changed in April, when Kondraki founded the first organized Foundation IRC RP as we know it today, Fieldwork.7
Essentially, FW was supposed to be the place of misfits. [It] was Site 17, dangerous SCPs all over, and people were kind of loopy to keep from going insane. The site was kind of run in the "Director is unseen but felt, Bright is the head of the site, Kondraki is the Gestapo." All of the field agents and doctors had their quirks. It slowly went from "this is a dangerous site and everyone should be pants-shittingly terrified while trying to keep sane" into "there are some really talented fucking people here no wonder they were at this site"
There were tough ass characters, there were non-combat characters, there were funny scenes, depressing scenes, and terrifying scenes. Runs would range from something kinda stupid to an outbreak of 008 in which the result was the nuclear strike of the infected area.
It was pretty much /the/ place to be, but some people didn't like the way it was ending up because they weren't in the spotlight so much anymore (IMO, even though they kinda were), so they said "this is too dumb we want something more serious" and made Active Duty. Only AD was retardedly grimdark and not fun unless you were Bright, Yoric, or Waxx, or on occasion, Rights
As it went on it did get a little bit sillier and very much less serious. There were blatantly stupid runs, most run by LBD. Dr. Syx (Lurker) and Dr. Rights were in a relationship despite being 9 kinds of illegal, but to be honest, the people who were playing most of the time were having fun, so it didn't matter. It may have been intended to be a super srs SCP RP, but it ended up being a fun kind of little slice of life thing
Not to mention Gears ran the best fucking run ever, the barge thing, I can't remember what number. I don't remember it entirely because I unfortunately had shit to do, and couldn't participate, but I heard that it was a mix of terrifying, exciting, and thinking "oh my god is my character going to actually survive?"
Really? The end came because of the fact that a large chunk of people jumped ship to AD left FW kind of barren, there weren't really enough people online at the same time to do much of anything - An Anonymous FW player
I wasn't really particularly active in AD, but I effectively took charge of FW after AD started and players started moving there. There were a lot of self-insertions there - our characters were basically crafted from our personnel pages or ourselves if we didn't have personnel pagesand the Senior Staff stats were so very high above the regular players that they dominated play.
What killed fieldwork was imbalance, the start of active duty. About the time that AD started and FW started declining, I took charge of the game, and I let LBD help me out. Worst decision ever - if there was a noose around the neck of the game to begin with, my appointing him as a GM pulled the lever of the trap door I suppose I could have saved it, but real life got in the way and that's when I essentially took off from all the SCP sites in general from then to now.
It's simply a matter of activity - no one was interested in FW, especially now that the much more balanced AD was starting, and the only active FW GMs let it die - myself and the other admins due to neglect, LBD due to mismanagement - to be honest, no one really wanted to play FW. I guess it was more of a thing concerning LBD as a person as it was due to mismanagement; he wasn't particularly popular. - Fifthman
With the popularity boom that allowed Fieldwork to exist came an increase in bad SCP entries, and a larger community in general. It was necessary that a better method of administrative communication be created. So, on May 1st, 2009, DrGears created 05command, which had lasted to this time of writing as the administrative site of the SCP Foundation. It was announced with this post, marked for "Mods/Admins"
With the growth of the site…we really need a way to communicate as a administration staff. With that in mind, the link on the left now leads to the new Admin site. Currently just a forum, i plan on installing a Chat module, and [creating] project pages and other such things.
If you are an admin or mod, please go visit and apply to join. Hopefully this will make communication go a bit easier.
http://05command.wikidot.com/start - DrGears
The efficiency of having an admin site to communicate immediately became apparent, as staff members were able to communicate on issues such as bans, promotions, and wiki policy very easily. One of the first actions taken with this new site was banning the user "Le Blue Dude", who had long been an irritant to staff members. For a period, staff had been indulging his behavior, since a lot of the time he'd been persecuted by other site members.
As time went on though, it became more apparent that LBD was bringing it on himself. Many staff members postulated on this, but there was a small derailment in the thread when Fishmonger posted. His modship had been restored, after being previously revoked for site vandalism. As far as this author has seen, this is the only significant post Fishmonger made on 05command.
When the thread returned to the intended topic, Waxx made this post that basically summed up the feeling for LBD by site members and moderators of the chat:
I feel bad for the kid but he just doesn't seem to get it. Honestly, it's to the point where it's like we are dealing with a five year old.
LBD, put your shoes on.
LBD, PUT YOUR FUCKING SHOES ON WE ARE LEAVING.
"I don't wanna, you are YELLING at me and I am FINE."
I can't speak for what he's done on the wiki but I will say that from what I have seen in the chat, he is completely hopeless. A lost cause. Having dealt with many people like LBD in the past, I can say with certainty that it is easier to just remove him than trying to rehabilitate him or teach him anything. The effort is wasted on him, it goes in one ear and out the other. All of the chances to succeed that he's been given are completely meaningless to him, because in his mind he's never done a damned thing wrong.
In my experience, when you have such a person it's best to just cut your losses and send them on their way. It's harsh, but ultimately it saves you from a lot of headaches. - Waxx
LBD was banned from the wiki and from the chat, later evading the ban and being banned again. This was the first time someone had been banned using 05command, and it vastly streamlined the process. Soon though, other problems would arise with deletion.
Since the decomm method had ended poorly, and the large number of poor articles was too big for it anyways, a new deletion policy was created. Previous to this, official policy had been to only delete entries with 8 downvotes and no upvotes. This had created the problem of people upvoting out of spite, or entries with a dozen downvotes for one upvote, as well as the issue where Kondraki had deleted every lowest rated article. The policy change came from DrClef, on May 20th 2009:
Let's make it simple.
-5: delete with approval of 3 mods and at least one admin.
-10: delete with approval of 3 mods.
-15: anyone can delete it. - DrClef
05command also allowed for the first official, public promotion thread. On May 15th, 2009, DrRights and Ekzhentric Lohner were made into moderators, while DrBright was made into an admin. Other users considered for promotion at the time8 were pooryoric, Break_Eternal, and Heiden9. These new staff members widened the administrative pool, making it so that we had enough staff to run the wiki without worrying whether or not it would die if 2 or 3 people left.
By late June, things with Kondraki had come to a head. He'd taken it upon himself to edit the author pages, deleting the content that he considered to be less than satisfactory. This act, combined with his previous juvenile behavior, resulted in the decision to remove him from administrative authority and ban him for 24 hours.10
One of the primary advocates for his removal was the former co-writer DrClef, who had grown tired of his infantile behavior and the aforementioned abuses of admin power. Other staff members who had been sympathetic to Kondraki would soon be swayed by Kondraki's repeated antics. On June 24th, the final decision was made, to remove Kondraki from his administrative position. The following note was penned by DrGears to Kondraki:
As of today, you are no longer an admin or mod of the SCP Foundation Wiki. No revocation or appeals on this reduction in rights will be heard for a period of no less then three months, at which time you may request a review, which will be based on your behavior during this time. If you wish to discuss the particulars of this decision, please reply to me with your questions.
I truly regret having to do this, however your cycles between good admin/rogue admin are at a point where they can no longer be ignored. I have no doubt whatsoever that your actions are almost always geared toward the greater good of the site, however your tactics are often deplorable and immature. During the last incident, you were told that this was your last "Last Chance", and that further rogue action would end with this outcome. Reviewing the log of your review and editing of the member pages, i am forced to judge that Last Chance violated.
I would hope that you stay on with the site as a user, and prove that you are capable of acting in a calm, mature, and rational fashion for a sustained period of time. This was a decision i had hoped i would not have to make, Kondraki.
He was a fun guy. A good writer, pretty funny, spun a good game of DnD. Genuinely cared about the site and was a good friend. But was a lot more of a hardass than Bright, and he took it MUCH further than he did too. There were periods when he was fine, and then there were periods when he wasn't. He particularly hated furries, or at least the really vocal annoying ones. But as time went on, the crazy vendettas got worse, and his periods of angry vehemence got longer. Eventually, it got so bad that he basically chased a bad user to other places on the net and started harassing them there, and that was where we had to call the line. He still comes back occasionally, but his visits tend to be very dependent on his moods. - Kain Pathos Crow
A flurry of activity would follow in the days after Kondraki left. In August, WikiDot implemented a new toolbar in the top of the site, which had links to social network sites, a shortcut to the "join site" page, and a logo. It was seen as an ugly and unnecessary addition, and many site users wished to remove it. However, only the Master Admin of the site would be able to remove it, and since FritzWillie/The Administrator had disappeared, staff had to message WikiDot to change it.
Oh, the MA switch….man, that was ages ago…
Ok, what lead up to the change over was when Wikidot started including the little toolbar doo-dad on top of the site. Everyone felt it was really distracting and jarring, but the only way to get rid of it was to upgrade to a pro account of some type. Now, the only way for this to work was for the actual site owner to do that, and we hadn't heard from The Administrator in quite some time. We tried to contact him a few times via PM, but didn't get any reply, so…we waited. And waited.
So that went on a while, and finally we decided to just try and get hold of wikidot directly. Which was pretty easy to do, I just PMed one of the higher-ups and got a response quickly. They messaged him, got no response…and transferred ownership over to me. I think we may have had one or two messages from him since them, but he is either gone, or lurking hard.
Incidentally, i had to transfer ownership to Mann for similar reasons. The pro account ran out, and he was able to pay for it, which i was not. So, we shifted it over to him. - DrGears
When this action was being debated, FritzWillie used the "The Administrator" account to post a response. This is the last message ever received from him:
I owe you and the other Admins a huge apology for seemingly abandoning my position on the site. I love the SCP world and only had its best interest in mind by moving hosting to wikidot. Unfortunately the real world has been more demanding of my time than I have to enjoy this fiction.
The good news is that I'm now the proud father of a healthy baby boy. The bad news is that my wife has lost her job and I'm working twice as hard as ever to support my new family.
I'm glad that the site has continued to expand without me and I will set up a pro account this week as you've requested, I owe the rest of you that much. I will peek in from time to time to enjoy myself, but I leave the daily administration in your capable hands.
There had been a backlash against silly building ever since LOLFoundation had started, and with Kondraki's fall it was catalyzed. There was a massive backlash against the silly, carefree tone of the earlier site. People were tired of silly, and wanted to return to a more serious tone. This was encouraged by staff members such as DrBright, Heiden, A Fat Ghost, and PoorYoric welcomed this change, and were quick to embrace it.
This backlash against the silly began to gain more and more momentum, and by July it had become the new law of the land. Nothing better demonstrates the move to a more serious Foundation then Active Duty, the second SCP RP. Founded by DrBright and Heiden, Active Duty was about Foundation Personnel stationed at Site 23, which was located in the Australian outback. After it started, the membership quickly boomed, taking most of Fieldwork's players and newfolk alike.
Active Duty was the genesis of a huge portion of site canon, with concepts like Lombardi, Tamlin House, and some people's concept of Overwatch Command originating from here. it quickly became so popular that the lines between what was RP canon and what was site canon began to blur. Articles which originated from Active Duty were put on the site, using the SCP-XXX-R designation. It had a massive community, more than any other SCP RP, and was marked by several over-arching plots, mostly perpetuated by Bright. One of them was the one in Kens's image, which involved the research director being pregnant with a baby that was also time and then Janus was zombie.11
Active Duty's influence on SCP canon and culture cannot be understated. It was the final nail in the coffin of LOLFoundation, and solidified the serious canon. It's where numerous influential community members such as EchoFourDelta, DrEverettMann, DrBright, Heiden and Sophia Light garnered much of their personal canon and interest in the wiki, and where the community basis for almost every Foundation RP since has come from.
However, not all staff members were comfortable with this new setting. Many of the early site members preferred a wiki more suited to their prior experiences of fun. When this was combined with personal problems, many of the Wiki's old guard would leave for a prolonged period of time, in some cases for good. The loss of old talent only exacerbated the bad SCP influx issue, which was quickly becoming too severe to ignore.
The problem of too many shoddy entries still was not completely solved, even with Clef's suggestion. There was simply too much hovering at -2 or -3 that nobody was able to move one way or the other. The idea of a big SCP review was brought up again, and on September 4th, 2009, the Mass Edit was begun. Creation of new SCP articles was locked down so that the review wouldn't suffer the same fate as the last one.
The Mass Edit was the major attempt to delete poor entries after the Decommissioning idea fell out of favor. The idea was to review every entry on the wiki and decide which could stay and which would be deleted. Every member on the wiki would be able to get their vote, and it lasted from 6 Sep 2009 to 6 Dec 2009. The result of the Mass Edit was the deletion of a significant number of entries, and a boost in wiki quality.
The Mass Edit was performed by having staff members comb through every entry in one block(i.e 001-099, 100-199, etc.), and placing entries up for review. There was a time limit in which volunteers could edit or rewrite the article, after which it could be saved or deleted, depending on the response. This was done manually for each entry, and as one can imagine it took ages to get any of them done.
It wasn't just SCP articles which were affected by the Mass Edit. Almost every -J article was deleted, with the exception of SCP-014-J, SCP-4444-J, SCP-4445-J, SCP-1344-J, and a few others. If you've ever heard of the "old times" where the -J articles were all bad pop culture references, this is the time where all those got deleted. -J entries had also been on the main list at this time, and the remaining entry was removed after the rest were deleted, and put with the -J section. A repository of what the main SCP list looked like prior to the Mass Edit can be found on the SCP Classic wiki.
The effects of the Mass Edit cannot be understated. We gained a much more concise and better written wiki, with a clear and strong goal of quality control. With the stagnant entries deleted, staff was better able to regulate the content coming onto the wiki. Without the Mass Edit, the SCP Wiki may have gone the way of the holder series, doomed from low quality control and endless, repetitive entries.
However, not everybody was happy with the results. There were many people who had every contribution they'd made on the wiki deleted, and some who hadn't gotten the opportunity to save their entries because of time constraints. Some entries that were well liked got deleted for being dumb/not making sense. However, entries like that were in the minority. Most deleted entries were of extremely low quality.
In November 2009, Pair of Ducks stepped down and allowed Clef to become the new owner. In addition to this, Clef and Bright promoted MrUnimport to moderation on November 12th. With this change would come new policy, and the final removal of one old member. DrKondraki had continued to reside in the IRC and on the wiki, despite the loss of his administrative powers. On November 15th, DrBright brought this issue up on 05command:
There's a user, Tybernius_ty, something. Furry. Admitted it in chat.
Kondraki stalked said kid to second life, found out his specific, and then preceded to trash on him in chat until the kid left.
What had occurred was Kondraki finding the users SecondLife profile, along with some embarrassing identification information. Site administration agreed that this was an extremely immature action, and moved to discipline him for it. However, Kondraki's behavior directly following the incident resulted in a permanent ban. Kondraki would then self-exile himself from the SCP Wiki, and we would not see him again for a long, long time.
The wiki moving into 2010 was very different from the one we'd come into during 2009. We'd taken on a much darker tone, and had a much larger user-base. Staff had shown they could knuckle down and work, and effectively administrate the community. We'd removed the stagnant level of the older leadership, and took ourselves more seriously.